Does becoming a parent make someone a better leader at work? Aren’t psychopaths more likely to be successful then those who care about others? How can women manage competing commitments without getting burnt out or bogged down in mum guilt? In the latest episode of our podcast we discuss the invaluable skills women in leadership positions bring to business and more with Danielle Dobson, author of Breaking the Gender Code. In her book, Danielle deconstructs some of the common myths around gender and identity and analyses the internal and external pressured facing women. Throughout this interview we explore Danielle’s work and the shared skills between leadership and parenting.
Why did Danielle decide to write Breaking the Gender Code?
Danielle has a background in corporate finance and after working for global multinational companies, decided to press the pause button on her career to raise her children. She then side stepped into a new role, working as an executive wellness coach where she met many clients who were facing burnout, fatigue, and parent guilt. “I wanted to get to the bottom of it and understand the people I wanted to coach better,” said Danielle.
Motivated by her desire to gain a more comprehensive insight into her clients’ individual pressures and frustrations, Danielle began to interview both women and men who were leaders at work and primary carers to children. Danielle stated that the common underlying dominator across all the leaders she interviewed was they “cared deeply about people, and that is their superpower.” Danielle discovered that her interviewees had a strong sense of empathy and brought an egalitarian, supportive and democratic approach to both their work and parenting roles.
The connection between childhood and later leadership
Danielle found that one of the common themes amongst the people she interviewed was the supportive environment in which they were raised. Interestingly, the men that Danielle spoke to who had a compassionate and consultative approach to leadership were all raised in an environment which instilled them with a sense of responsibility. Such individuals were often raised by single mothers, had a disabled sibling, or were shown what it was like to be a caring member of a community by their families.
According to Danielle, men who took on a nurturing role during childhood or adolescence had little appetite for participating in “the boys club” later in their professional career and became inclusive leaders and hands-on parents.
Amongst the women Danielle interviewed one of the common themes she identified was the fact that their “parents didn’t limit them.” They showed faith and trust in their children, afforded them a sense of agency and didn’t perpetuate antiquated protective based stereotypes that unintentionally disempower young girls. “It is an absolute gift to be able to give to your children. To truly help them believe and understand that they can achieve what they set out to do.”
Leaders can be lonely
In a kind of ironic Catch 22-like scenario, Danielle argues that the leaders in which she interviewed cared so much about setting other people up for success that they neglected their own wellbeing and felt a sense of desolation as a result. Henry Kissinger once famously remarked that “Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac.” One could safely surmise that he never felt particularly lonesome, then again, he also has a somewhat unflattering reputation as a murderous criminal depending on who you ask, so perhaps Danielle is right in suggesting that those with a deep sense of empathy are more likely to feel a sense of isolation in their personal lives.
But what about the anti-social behaviour sometimes seen in leadership?
The knowledge that there are such sympathetic, benevolent and capable leaders is certainly a heartening thought. Type the words “my boss is” and Google’s suggested results act as a fairly telling indication of how many people have less than pleasant relationships with their boss. Jon Ronson, one of the most famous writers on psychopathic behaviour, has claimed that at least 4 percent of CEO’s are psychopaths stating that ‘capitalism as its most ruthless awards psychopathic behaviour.’
Anyone who has seen American Psycho, Succession, the Social Network or are familiar with the disturbingly very really Trump family, will know that money and power often have a tendency to corrupt individuals. Happily, though according to Danielle “the psychopaths have an end date.” She argues that the workforce is changing driven by advances in technology, globalisation and shifting expectations of an empowered workforce.
“People need mastery, autonomy and purpose in their work. The command and control approach doesn’t cut it in our current work environment. Because we already have artificial intelligence and robots to do all those manual jobs that the command and control style approach worked perfectly for in the past.”
Experts have been suggesting for some time now that the most highly prized skills in the future will be those least susceptible to automation. Such skills include things like creativity, emotional intelligence and critical thinking. According to Danielle, to nurture such skills in the workplace “you need psychological safety within your team.” Therefore, fostering a sense of empathy “is a business imperative as it effects the bottom line.”
Parenting and leadership
Interestingly Danielle argues that becoming a parent fundamentally influenced the leadership style of her research participants. “When people become parents, they strengthen their skills of adaptability, flexibility, critical thinking and cognitive agility.” All of which makes them more capable and valuable workers. Yet paradoxically many women find re-entry into the workforce after they have had children difficult to say the least.
The motherhood penalty is a commonly used phrase to understand the gender pay gap and categorise the phenomenon by which women frequently experience prolonged stagnation in their career after having children. We asked Danielle how women may disrupt that pattern and convince potential employers that the skills they have cultivated since becoming a parent are of worth and transferable to the workforce.
“You’ve got to think about what’s in it for them ask yourself what have I developed and strengthened during my time on a career pause or on maternity leave that’s really going to benefit the person in front of me right now.”
According to Danielle, it is important that women not place excessive pressure on themselves to “snap back” after having a baby.
“A woman comes back from maternity leave and it’s a very challenging time where personal and external expectations go through the roof. The more we’ve invested our identity in our work the harder that adjustment is. Acknowledging those transitions and accepting those different stages is so important. And looking at the opportunities in the next phase.”
A Woman’s Place?
In conjunction with the work conducted by previous researchers and scholars, Danielle argues that women who balance leadership positions within their workplace and their role as caregivers are often subject to excessive self-judgement and guilt due to the engrained cultural perception that it is a women’s duty to shoulder the majority of childcare responsibilities.
One doesn’t have to look very far to find examples of the kind of mum shaming Danielle is referring to. When Jacinta Ardern first announced her pregnancy, almost immediately speculation abounded as to who would care for her child and how she would balance the responsibilities of running a country alongside new motherhood. Some may consider these reasonable questions, but it warrants mention that Tony Blair, David Cameron and now Boris Johnson have also had children whilst in office and were scarcely questioned on the nature of their commitment to their family.
It is a sad reality that family commitments often constrain the careers of mothers but not fathers. The very fact that the phrase “working father” is seldom used and has none of the adverse connotations of “working mother” testifies to the double standard faced by women who juggle multiple commitments outside of the home.
This was a concept championed by second wave feminists’ way back in the 1970s who argued that women will only achieve true emancipation when men share equally the responsibility of raising children instead of viewing themselves as babysitters or simply there to provide financial support. As feminist hero Gloria Steinman once famously remarked “I have yet to hear a man ask for advice on how to combine marriage and a career.”
We asked Danielle whether she believed an increase in paid paternity leave was one way to disrupt this pattern and encourage more equity with childcare responsibilities. She stated that;
“Introducing paternity leave is one thing getting people to take it is another because of the stigma and the stereotypes within the organisation. What helps is if they see senior male leaders taking paternity or family leave.”
Danielle argued that increasing the amount of paid paternity leave for men is certainly a positive step, but conceded there may have to be mechanisms in place in which compel men to take such leave before it can become a normative practice.
When workplace structures change to encourage men to assume a greater role as caregivers, it releases women from some of their assumed obligations and allows them to thrive in the workplace as well. Thus, the key to an increase in the number of women in leadership roles may be to increase the role of men as parents. Danielle also argues that;
“Taking paternity leave allows men to build on those skills and acquire an increased sense of adaptability, flexibility and critical thinking. When fathers do take paternity leave, they learn so much more about leadership and life. We’ve also got a better hope of caring being more highly valued then it is now.”
You can listen to our full interview with Danielle here and purchase a copy of Breaking the Gender Code here CLS listeners and readers will also receive a 30% discount of the book price with the use of the code CLS2020.
10% of all book sales, world-wide are donated to an Australian first, Mothers and Sons program, which supports mothers to raise their sons to be respectful men. You can also stay up to date with Danielle here